Meeting minutes – ECI Meeting - June 26, 2009

Minutes provided by Roland Thees, WAN-IFRA

  • Date: June 26th 2009
  • Venue: Frechen/Cologne

0. Attendees

11 permanent attendants:

  • Olaf Drümmer;
  • Florian Süßl;
  • Dietmar Wueller;
  • Karl-Michael Meinecke;
  • George Battrick;
  • Roland Thees;
  • Darrian Young;
  • Bernhard Schmidt;
  • Sascha Bugai;
  • Jörg Schober;
  • Renate Rewer;


  • Scott Foshee; (part time in the afternoon)

Online web participants:

  • Andreas Kraushaar
  • Klaus-Hermann Otto
  • Peter Kleinheider
  • Stephan Jaeggi

1. Minutes for 20.06.2008 ECI meeting


2. Elections:

- Agreement to open votes - 7 in favor for extension of the existing board

ECI RGB - ISO status (Dietmar)

ECI RGB Color Space widely used, but not supported by Adobe, because competition to Adobe RGB and Adobe Color Space. Camera manufacturers stick to Adobe RGB also. Putting the Spec on the ISO Website after finalizing characterization data.

3. Changes in membership

WAN-IFRA is welcomed as member, similar as IFRA before

Proposal to reply on e-mail invitations

Action item for Olaf: Start a membership list on internal Wiki, for approval of membership and modifications

Action item for Karl-Michael: Proposal to invite students/assistants from Wuppertal/Stuttgart University to be involved. Contact persons are R. Schaul and St. Brues as working relationship

4. ECI Working Groups

I: Gravure by Bernhard

Updated PSR V2 standard will be published online beginning of July. 3 paper grades (SC, LWC and LWC+) new characterization data. Certification is done by Fogra. Widely accepted after a comparison between house standards and new standard and findings that the match proof to print is much better.

II: Web Offset by Florian

replacements for existing profiles are available for download; the uncoated one is an average of different papers (Fogra47), specific LWC-profile.

Action item for Florian: Press Release ECI to promote the new ICC-Profiles + some quotes:

  • Input Web by Florian,
  • Input Gravure by George + Bernhard
  • Input Newspaper by Roland (IFRA Test chart “Cuboid”)
  • ⇒ Until 10th of June

III: Offset Profiles Working Group by Florian

nothing new

IV: Coating Working Group by Hanno Hoffstadt

nothing new

Image data vs. Meta data

Adobe raw format “DNG” is based on TIFF/EP, at the moment not supported by Adobe. Metadata file format to be defined, in XML or in TIFF?, ongoing discussions in ISO TC42

Olaf reports that Metadata at the moment is a disaster, because proprietary in every WG and specific for different interested groups. Dietmar will provide on request the actual documents of the working drafts

Olaf: Callas will launch an initiative regarding Metadata, focus XMP; fall 2009, participants should also represent IPTC, Exif, DNG, and AdsML.

5. ISO TC 130

Karl-Michael reports from the ISO meeting in May 2009 in Dallas and reasons for systematic revision and changes of 12647 -1/2/3 including proposal for future actions.

Redundancies, some obsolete definitions and outdated descriptions, integration of stochastically screening and CTP. All details are described in his presentation.

Short presentation of the counterproposal of Dave McDowell, who proposed a totally new standard

Olaf: Dave seems to be the voice of the American group. Fundamental change request might have a de-stabilizing process. Focus could be the data set, not the press (and the connected process control)

ISO-decision: Preliminary work item as preparation for Beijing 09/2009 for voting for a work item.

PDF/X-4 under discussion, especially spot colors, transparencies and layers are allowed and improved Martin Bailey stepped down as chair, new chair to be announced.

PDF/VT; Variable data and transactional printing, nearly finished, users are e.g. Photo books, printing promotions or mass-invoices like phone bills or bank statements, can replace IBM's “AFP” Advanced function processing. SOFHA in Berlin is already developing drivers.

CxF, Xrite driven, at the moment no alternative

6. ISO TC 171

Olaf: PDF 2.0, additional features like processing informations and Black Point Compensation, output intent, TVI adjustments, output intent per object. Draft in 2010

PDF A-2, JPEG2000, transparency, approval to be expected in 2010

PDF UA (Universal accessibility), e.g. Blind People, reading disabilities. Solution is a screen reader or braille letters. Complements PDFA1/a (a= accessible). By law public administration has to implement this technology in the near future. Content needs to be structured to do so.

PDF/E (= engineering): no new specs until now

7. ERA:

Nothing new

Karl-Michael;; supporting usage and compliancy to 12647

9. New Version of Media Standard Print

BVDM, Karl-Michael: translations to other languages e.g. Dutch and Spanish after finalizing the German and the English version

Discussion with Scott Foshee (guest)

Guest speaker Scott Foshee, Adobe Systems, working on standards e.g. jpeg 2000, technical background “images and digital cameras”, “SCIT” Steering Commitee on Image Technology, networking committee

RAW-not compressed, independent, raw technology defined per camera manufacturer; contribute to Adobe - DNG technology as a customer requirement to store raw-data. TIFF/EP will not be backward compatible.

XMP Meta data instead of TIFF Meta data. Exif not converted to XMP because the EXIF-groups wants the backward compatibility.

10. Altona Test-Suite 2.0

Karl-Michael; “under construction”, expected in 2010, lot's of details to be discussed

Olaf: newly developped test patches which are disturbing if they don't appear correctly, a tiny stripe appears which tells it's different

Karl-Michael: organised by BVDM, venue Stuttgart, end of September 09, workshops on PDF by Kleinheider, Jaeggi, also workflow, standards, digital printing e.g.

12. PDF/X-4

How to market? At the moment very few people understand it, doing seminars and communications.

→ Decision: later, at the moment only to be used with Indesign, wrong results with Acrobat.

13. New Standard Printing Conditions 2009

  • Sheetfed Offset, uncoated
  • Web Offset (LWC Improved/Standard,)

Already discussed

Already discussed

15. Liaison reports

  • Fogra:
    • Softproofing, nearly finished,
    • Digitalprint started
  • IFRA
    • International Newspaper Color Quality Club in progess
  • GWG
    • in process, frequently meetings, every 3 months, efficiency slowing down
  • PDFXready
    • doing quite well, interesting web-site with lot's of explanations and downloads, doing trainings and certifications.

16. Other business

Next meeting:

  • Proposal early spring 2010.
  • Preliminary date 19. March 2010, venue tbd.

Minutes provided by Roland Thees, WAN-IFRA