Meeting Minutes ECI Meeting 19.03.2010 (DRAFT)

  • Location: BVDM, Wiesbaden/Germany

Participants at venue:

  • Karl Michael Meinecke, BVDM
  • Olaf Drümmer, Callas
  • Florian Süßl, Meta Design
  • Ronald Schaul, HDM
  • George Battrick, ERA
  • Renate Rewer, Laudert
  • Dietmar Wüller, Image Engineering
  • Andre Schützenhofer
  • Jörg Schober, redblue
  • Frank Dieckhoff, BVDM
  • Darian Young, Color & Image
  • Tobias Rausch, XRite
  • Roland Thees, WAN-IFRA

Remote participants:

  • Andi Kraushaar, FOGRA
  • Stefan Jaeggi
  • Peter Kleinheider

1: Agenda approved, Last meeting minutes approved

2. Changes in membership: none

3. ECI Working Groups

3.1 Gravure WG

Presentation by George Battrick - available for download

3.2 Web Offset WG

Presentation by Florian Süßl - available for download

  • Improved newsprint is in preparation (INP)
  • TVI: CMY 19%, K 22%
  • Time frame: Test prints in summer, Evaluation in fall 2010,
  • Provided to Fogra for a new ICC number

3.3 Offset profile WG:

Nothing new

3.4 Coating WG

Hanno Hoffstadt is sick, also misses support from Printers and Measurement

4 eciRGB as RGB standard profile

Dietmar Wüller reports about development and negotiations with US regarding characterization and naming of a RGB standard profile.

5 ECI profile and chardata registry - Olaf Drümmer

ICC profiles should be easily found on websites by human beings but also by a piece of software - also required for reference destination profiles.Olaf recommends a central locations where the most profiles are available machine readable, licensing will be attached to the system, but it's not required during a download to agree in any way. Technically it's revolving around printing conditions. Documentation and short description is required. English is mandatory, other languages additionally are allowed. Defined folder structure on a webserver, machine readable. Mirror servers at other locations like IFRA, Fogra Adobe, Heidelberg etc. In applications only the URL is mentioned, not the profile itself.

Removing from the central webserver under normal conditions is not allowed. Olaf requests backing from the ECI group for this project. XRite reserved the right for each profile, this is not acceptable for the intended system. No such problems with Heidelberg or BasICColor. A kind a deciding experts are required to drop an ICC profile into the system.

  • Voting to move forward: everybody agreed
  • Next steps: Peter and Olaf prepare the details, contact Adobe, Idealliance etc. and will keep us updated. To be deployed on the website.
  • Time frame: Non public end of June, depending on the progress going live after summer 2010

2 license agreements required:

  • a) Allowing putting the char data on the website
  • b) License agreement between ECI and User

6. ISO TC 130 - Olaf Drümmer

6.1.1 WG3

Beijing was unfortunate, McDowell's Process Agnostic approach, no expert participants from Germany (exept Convener, Chair), fear of loosing advantages of process control. Revision of some topics in St. Gallen expected, main goal to revise 12647 1/2/3/4. Paper industry participants want to remove the paper properties out of the standard. which definitely is an integral part of the print standards. Technical report from Craig Revie, Phil Green, on ISO 12647 (Action item) is supported by Karl Michael by provision of the current content list “Process Standard Offset”. Process agnostic approach is expected to be a long term project and is not clear at the moment.

6.1.2 WG2 PDF/X-4:

FDIS, closes early May, individual layers will be allowed PDF/VT:

completeted in Rochester, on its way to publication CxF Spec V2

published by XRite: Tobias Rausch:

  • Details available at Open license, SDK for free provided from XRite (Ray) license agreement required, but not yet handed over to ISO. Legal departments of ISO and Xrite have to solve this problem for going further. General data exchange format to replace the CGATS Formats, guarantees all informations to color is included.

6.2 Next ISO TC 130 meetings;

* St. Gallen in April 2010 * Sao Paulo October 11-15 2010 * Berlin April 2011

7.1 ISO TC 171, Olaf Drümmer

ISO 32000:

Dictionary for Color Conversion, to be discussed in June in Paris

Rules for simulating overprint, there are no guidelines for PDF-Viewer or Proof/Monitor or InkJet/Laserprinter. Goal. if overprint is used, it should be simulated on any output device and every PDF must simulate it depending on the file content. Means there must be a CMYK outpunt intent, not required for RGB. Not intended to give rules how the overprint calculation is done

Black point compensation in Acrobat needs to be corrected to avoid wrong results (same effect in Photoshop and Indesign)

PDF/UA (Universal Accessibility)

intended for blind people, some laws require access to handicaped people.

8. Printing Standard Network Expert Meeting Milano 11/2009

report by Karl Michael Meinecke, George Battrick

Prepared by Intergraf Communication Task Force (Printing Standard Network) including Elie, Wilco, Pascale, KM et al. Two day conference November 23/24, 2009 with 53 European Experts from 11 countries including many ISO TC 130 experts. Total of 26 presentations, moderator KM. Topics: Printing standards development and application, certification, paper properties, supporting documents etc. Presentation of latest standard printing conditions to ISO 12647 (Offset 2009, PSR V2) recommended by bvdm, ECI, ERA, Fogra, Ifra, Ugra. Drifting interests between solution providers, consultants and certificators and specially manufacturers of printing papers, similar to discussions in ISO TC 130. Download of information, presentations at Next (half day) meeting planned by April 2011 in conjunction with ISO TC 130 in Berlin.

9. Altona Test Suite 2010 Application Kit

  • slightly modified by Florian, including the Fogra Media Wedge, new chart with 1617 Patches, KM will provide additional infos and some charts later.
  • ATS PDF/X-4 Transparencies: Olaf was pretty busy in designing problematic effects like transparencies, layers (optional content), text rendering, shaded patterns, smooth shades, DeviceN, check flatening etc. in a file to check the output capabilities of different software. Beta-tester (software vendors) are required.

Ms. Schermuly-Wunderlich presented the planned 3 days Print Media Congress in Mainz at ZDF conference center in September 2009, 22-24. Prepress / Print / Finishing, including an economic part. German Language only. Unfortunately date collidates with Photokina

11. PDF/X-4 - Olaf Drümmer

goal is promoting PDF/X-4.Advantage is keeping the transparency, from a technical point of view it's better and do flattening on the RIP. Creating PDF/X-4 must be easier. Flattening engine in Photoshop, Indesign and Acrobat work different. Wide spread between people with high and low knowlede at PrePress and Printers Site. X-4 is not device independent.

12. New Standard Printing Conditions 2010

HSWO = HeatsetWebOffset - already covered

13. Liasion reports

ERA, George Battrick

  • no industry standard at the moment for rotogravure packaging printers, nothing for spot colors ERA is organizing a conference for Printers and Customers to bring them together and get a better understanding. Paper first aid brochure planned, runability, printability, calmb handling. Classification of papers is not planned

Fogra, Andi Kraushaar

  • As part of a recent research project Fogra releases an open char.-data repository comprising measured ISO 12642 testcharts with different modes (ISO 13655 M0, M1) and black and white backing respectively. See:
  • Digital Working Group to develop (together with the ICC GASIG) a colour exchange spaces (the basics for such a thing)

WAN-IFRA, Roland Thees

  • Needs for ICC profile for improved newspaper. Discussion whether specific device link profiles for the individual paper are better. Running the Color Quality Contest, ideal tool to collect data and get an overview which Lab values are reached in printing plants.

GWG, Peter Kleinheider

  • Get rid of warnings during a Preflight Check which have no influence on the printing process. Demand for CMYK in combination with transparencies, but no colormanaged elements. Next GWG Meeting in Mainz, 29 and 30th of April

BVDM, Karl Michael Meinecke

  • Process Standard Offset (PSO) new edition will be published approximately by end of the 2010. The completely revised and extended manual (400+ pages) will comprise guidelines to all offset processes and production steps from data preparation to production print. PSO is based on the ISO 12647 series.
  • Carbon Footprint meeting of European associations on March 4 in Brussels to discuss/evaluate ISO TC 130 initiative on CO2 in April 2010 - TF 1 at St. Gallen. No support/funding actually for this activity from the British Standarisation Institute, for the moment this is a private initiative (Laurel Brunner). Future activities, scope, funding to be clarified. Systems for reduction, evaluation and compensation of CO2 in print production are already on the market. The probably most advanced is the bvdm Klimarechner/Klimainitiative supported by german environmental ministery, Heidelberg, manroland. Certified to the gold standard, the bvdm system is available in Germany (market leader) and abroad.
  • The“Altona Test Suite 2.0 Application Kit (2010)“ is a joint project of German Printing and Media Industries Federation (bvdm), European Color Initiative (ECI), Graphic Technology Research Association (Fogra) and of Ugra. bvdm (editor) is responsible for project coordination and production. New components – some still under construction, such as the testform “Technical 2” (PDF/X-4, transparencies) – will become part of the Altona Test Suite Application Kit 2nd edition. The new edition shall comprise:
    • Series of ATS reference prints, based on latest standard printing conditions (ISO 12647-2)
    • Four new ATS test forms per printing condition using all “roman16 bvdm reference images”
    • Test Suite Files (PDF/X) from all standard printing conditions for proofing and print tests
    • Updated characterization data, profiles (bvdm/ECI/Fogra/Ugra)
    • New selection of papers – prior check of properties (bvdm/suppliers)
    • New selection of printing inks – prior check of properties (bvdm/suppliers)
    • Additional RGB images (Altona Visual reference images) (ECI/bvdm)
    • Ugra/Fogra Media Wedge CMYK V3 Proof in Altona Visual test files (Ugra/Fogra)
    • ECI/bvdm Gray Control Strip series (updated versions 2009)
    • New PDF/X-4 test page – „Technical 2“ with transparencies (ISO 15930-7, PDF/X-4)
    • Comprehensive documentation both in english and german language
    • everything is subject to change without prior notice

14. Other business

XRite, Tobias Rausch..

… introduced a X-Rite Graphic Arts Standard (XRGA) as Inter-instrument model agreement between different measurement devices. Problem: Gretag and Xrite measure different. XRGA should fix this. Possible that differences between old and new calibrated ones will be different. Providing a new Color Port Software (V2) which provides transformation to the new XRGA standard. All new graphic arts instruments will run it natively, tools will be available to upgrade the older ones. Internally it's applying correction curves. Replacement of Profile Maker in 2010.

Olaf Drümmer: Version 4 profiles...

… causes confusion and have nearly no additional benefit. Biggest difference is a clean up of the spec and a default gamut with the possibility to create an own one (Perceptual reference Media Gamut). No known substantial advantages. Olaf recommends to avoid them. Andi mentioned that many problems that motivated V4 has been solved over the course of time with V2. He recommends to collect the issues and informs the ICC about that list and the potential agreement to stick with V2 for the time being.

Gathering informations about V4 profiles seems to be useful.

Olaf gets in contact to ICC to figure the benefits out.

Next ECI Meeting:

  • Location: Munich at redblue, Jörg Schober
  • Dinner: 25. November
  • Meeting: 26. November 2010

Minutes by Roland Thees, WAN-IFRA with contributions from meeting participants